You need everything for the operetta
Interview |
Here it comes, the smooth, but then also a little mischievous triple time, and the refrain that you can't get out of your ear: "Death, that must be a Viennese..." Written by the immortal Georg Kreisler, sung by Jonas Kaufmann. You experience everything here: the casual glide, the tongue-in-cheek and the ambiguous, and then again the entire spectrum of a grandiose musicality. He also shines in this small form, even in wit, and skillfully gets to the heart of the Viennese. Not only those who have heard this are looking forward to Kaufmann's first Staatsoper-Eisenstein on New Year's Eve. After all the princes, lovers, revolutionaries and seekers, he now plays the bon vivant who would rather go to a lavish party than to jail. Oliver Láng spoke to the audience favorite about his skillful Viennese accent, the freedom in operetta and why we like Eisenstein despite everything.
A colleague from Munich always likes to say: You Viennese don't need to get too excited about anything, the Bavarians aren't that different. You were born in Munich and know Vienna well. Is Vienna different?
As a Salzburger by choice, I would say that Salzburgers and Bavarians are very close to each other. I lived in Vienna for several years and can therefore report from my own experience: Vienna is a bit different. So for me, it would be too short-sighted to say that there are no differences in mentality. But of course, some people feel that way and others feel differently. What is definitely true, however, is that Munich is much closer to Vienna than Hamburg.
On the subject of countries and metropolitan areas, a clever journalist recently pointed out that today's teenagers no longer compare countries with each other, but rather cities.
In my opinion, he is absolutely right. In the end, this state-based thinking is passé in many respects. I was recently at the opening of the new German embassy in Vienna, and the Austrian Federal President said that we could start the discussion: do we actually still need national passports, or wouldn't a European passport simply be better? Today, people clearly define themselves more by their hobbies or interests than by their origin or even their language. Of course, there are countries that still celebrate this. Switzerland, for example, still sticks to Swiss German and makes sure that it is spoken on the radio and television; even films are dubbed accordingly. But the basic trend is the opposite.
One of your successful CD and DVD projects was dedicated to Vienna, the operetta and the Viennese song. In addition to Strauss, Kálmán and Lehár, you can also hear Leopoldi and Kreisler. We also hear that you sing very beautifully in Viennese. You learned that as a child, in front of your grandparents' television, with the ORF children's program between Kasperl and Am dam des, didn't you?
Yes, absolutely right. I was allowed to watch television with my grandparents in Tyrol, who had an old black and white set with a broken picture tube. Those are wonderful memories! You had to switch it on half an hour beforehand and wait until the set warmed up and slowly came on. And I watched a lot of programs, not just the children's program, but also shows like Heinz Conrads. Looking back on these programs, I find it amazing how much classical music and singing were at the heart of Austrian society back then.
But the fact that you have learned Viennese well also has to do with musicality: as a singer, you simply have a special ear for colors and nuances.
I received special praise from the wonderful Helmut Deutsch and his family after the concerts in the Theater im Park, where I sang a Viennese program. Right up to my "Meidlinger L". I have always enjoyed presenting such local colorations. Even as a child, I regularly entertained my parents' guests with a wide variety of dialects, North German or Saxon, Hessian or Swabian. Or even with foreign languages. I also enjoyed speaking English with an American accent at school one day and trying out Scots the next.
Do you get to the bottom of an attitude to life or an identity through the respective music? Or is it the other way around, and you can only sing something specifically local if you understand a mentality?
Without a doubt, you can learn to love Vienna through its music. Many people, even from other continents, have approached this city through its music, simply because Strauss & Co. are so wonderful. Who isn't enchanted by it? When it comes to understanding, it's rather the other way around. If you know the people here, how they sometimes grumble and are cordial, if you have experienced many things, then it is undoubtedly easier to understand allusions and double meanings.
Your personal introduction to operetta was through your grandmother, who loved the genre. It's also a very nice story that you sweetened boring housework with Die Fledermaus, conducted by Carlos Kleiber.
It's just my feel-good music that gives me a kick and puts a smile on my face. Even when it's about less pleasant things like housework. After all, one of the strengths of music is that you can actively influence feelings with it and through it. Die Fledermaus, but also Im weißen Rössl: I can laugh so heartily! They are simply such great works!
Despite all the good humor, Karajan already pointed out that operetta in particular is not an easy genre. The apparent lightness is difficult to realize, and it requires a great deal of craftsmanship.
Yes, that's the famous story about the light muse being so difficult. I'm currently doing a Puccini program in Copenhagen and I'm accompanied by a great orchestra, a symphony orchestra. The musicians, however, are downright dismayed that there is a tempo change in practically every bar. It's back and forth, back and forth, reacting and slowing down, up and down. Whereby Puccini is only a foretaste of the operetta. You need everything: the liveliness, the lightness, the flexibility, the dialog, the acting and then a voice that can do it all. You have to be able to breathe delicate pianos, but also step on the gas when the big orchestra turns up the volume in a Lehár, for example.
And above all a sense of freedom. Is this boundless? Does Viennese music elude overly rigid rules? After all, a waltz that counts exactly 1-2-3 mathematically produces pure boredom. How do you handle freedom?
This is simply an elevated school of musicality. Perhaps you could put it this way: absolute freedom is only a pretense. If you give a singer carte blanche, according to the motto: just do your thing, then it quickly degenerates into a top-notch and endless endurance contest. Musically, that makes no sense at all. But if you phrase agogically in a sensible and musically correct way, because it makes sense, and everyone involved has a similar instinct and similar ideas, then playing together works perfectly, even with certain freedoms. But you have to know each other and you have to be able to trust that everyone is pulling in the same direction.
Eisenstein may have bad qualities, but he remains a likeable character. In his misery, despite his depths of character, in his rascality: very few people are seriously angry with him. Do you feel the same way?
I think you can best interpret Eisenstein if you already have slightly gray temples. Because then the consequences of his over-the-top behavior become clearer than with a green lad. In the society of the time, it was unfortunately a matter of course for the master of the house to have an affair with the parlor maid. It was socially accepted, just like the stories with the ballet dancers. The wife had to fit into her role. The fact that Rosalinde perhaps didn't just take singing lessons with Alfred was certainly the bigger scandal at the time. But: at the end of the day, you have to let Eisenstein go out as a sympathetic figure, with all the compromises. Of course, the music is also responsible for making the characters likeable or unlikeable.
"I think you can best interpret Eisenstein if your temples are already a little gray."
Since Gustav Mahler's directorship, Die Fledermaus has been performed at the Staatsoper on New Year's Eve. Why does this operetta go down so well? Because the champagne triumphs at the end? Because the "sponge-druber" mentality appeals?
Under Mahler's leadership, Viennese opera reached its absolute peak. Perhaps this Fledermaus decision also contributed a little to this. Why? No one can answer that exactly. It's the sum total: you experience a glittering feast on stage. It's not a sad subject. The rhythms make the audience's feet itch. The melodies are infectious. Among the many, many great waltz composers, the composer has done it best. And the champagne triumphs at the end. Everything is just perfect for a New Year's Eve. And there is a good transition to the New Year's concert the next morning.
The otherwise bitingly critical Karl Kraus is often quoted as saying that the streets in Vienna are paved with culture instead of asphalt. From the perspective of the internationally traveling artist: Is that true?
I know there are also cutbacks and savings in Vienna, and some much-loved projects can no longer take place. As a passionate Lied singer, I am very sad that some subscription cycles that used to exist have been curtailed. Nevertheless, there is still an incredible amount going on and Vienna is a shining example compared to other cities. The cultural density in Vienna is simply greater than elsewhere, richer and more commonplace. Almost a miracle!